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Meltemi, what happened....

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Kleuter
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PostPosted: Monday, 01.Dec.2014 17:57    Post subject: Listen to the Philips CEO Frans van Houten....   Reply with quote   

Quote:

Instead everything was pushed to Windows Phone, the userbase went to Android and the rest is history.

Now that is a fact, but the causual link is not, and all the rest is any ones guess frankly.

Funny thing is that the best product does not allways win in the market, Philips knows all about that since launching their video recorder.

Speaking about Philips, they decided to split the company recently. Big decision for them.

The CEO van Houten said he wanted to avoid the Nokia scenario. I am not making this up, he litterally said that, you can google it!

He mentioned Nokia as the example how things can go wrong very fast. He wanted to avoid becoming irrelevant in the face of new competitors Google and Apple entering the healtcare market.

He also mentioned Sony who were late in divesting low margin businesses and are losing money because of that in a big way.

Maybe you should not be so sure that Nokia would have made in if it had gone ahead with Symbian Belle and Meego. Van Houten thinks he has to make a drastic decision which has debated on and shyed away from by Philips for more then 25 years.
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Ketilk
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PostPosted: Monday, 01.Dec.2014 19:17    Post subject:   Reply with quote   

The Nokia scenario was ditching their own products before they knew if the new product to replace it would be popular or not. It is a guess that they still would have had 40% marketshare today if they had continued with their symbian+harmattan effort, but even 10% today would have been a lot better than what they ended up with.

It does not make sense to go all in for an experimental product when they at least can keep the old products that gave them income in basic maintenance mode during the transition. Nokia didn't even do that.
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Michal Jerz
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PostPosted: Monday, 01.Dec.2014 22:10    Post subject:   Reply with quote   

Quote:

Not only was Symbian^3 a great 'restarting' point for the platform, but the future Anna and Belle updates really brought the platform in parity with Android and iOS from a user friendliness perspective.

The N9 was not only successful, it was loved by critics and was a lightning-in-a-bottle platform that really could have shifted the landscape. Instead everything was pushed to Windows Phone, the userbase went to Android and the rest is history.

Exactly, that's the point.

What Kleuter doesn't seem to be able to acknowledge, is that Elop didn't give neither Symbian^3 nor MeeGo any chance to even just show if they can be successful or not. Or maybe rather: he killed them even though they were clearly showing (despite all the harm that had been done to them) that they were finally able to catch up and compete with Android and iOS.

Yes, it is a fact that between 2007 and 2010 Symbian wasn't growing nearly as fast as Android or iOS. No one questions that. And in this regard changes were needed, very urgently. But that was BEFORE Symbian^3 and MeeGo, both of which arrived ONLY AFTER Elop came to Nokia, and he started to destroy them BEFORE they were released. Therefore, all Symbian^3 and MeeGo results in H2 2010-2011 already were strongly affected by Elop's harmful actions, yet they were still successful, so we can only imagine how much more successful they would have been without Elop.

As mentioned many times, right from the first day Elop did the following:

- the first decision of Elop was to delay the launch of the N8 (and thus Symbian^3) by nearly two months, to skip the summer season and get worse marketshare results for H2 2010 and Q3 2010. I know it because I got final N8 with final firmware (FCC approved, final sales package with all labels, etc.) for review a few days before planned launch and then Elop came and kept delaying it - I got a phone call from Nokia and I was disallowed to publish the review. The N8 only came out in late September (and in many markets only in October-November), but it still got the best sales in Symbian's history, 4+ million units in merely 2-3 months, 1/4th of all iPhone shipments

- the E7 (meant to be Nokia's new flagship) was to come out before Christmas and - again - it was ready for that time as I got a final device for review (which I published and I was instantly contacted and ORDERED to remove the review). Elop delayed it by almost TWO MONTHS to skip the entire Christmas/New Year season, and it was launched only on Feb 11, 2011

- as Nokia got millions of pre-orders anyway, EXACTLY ON THE DAY of the E7 launch Elop issued his "burning platform memo" to hamper its sales. It takes being sick in the head not to see the connection.

- he instantly broke the MeeGo partnership with Intel - that's when netbooks with MeeGo were already available in stores, several car makers were interested in the IVI UX, etc.

- he announced discontinuation of Symbian before he could really know how Symbian^3 would be performing. The N8 (delayed by him) was on the market for only a few months (and it was one of the best selling smartphones of all times) and the E7 (delayed by him) didn't even launch before his memo. Symbian^3 was getting extremely enthusiastic reviews, everyone calling it "a new opening" etc., yet he didn't even wait for Q1 2011 results - apparently huge sales of N8 and the number of E7 preorders scared sh*t out of him. If the N8 and E7 came out as initially scheduled, Q4 2010 and Q1 2011 results of just those two models would have been 50% of iPhone, so the whole Symbian would have outsold iOS and Elop wouldn't have any arguments to convince the Board to drop Symbian.

- he announced discontinuation of MeeGo HALF A YEAR before the N9 (which was originally scheduled for December 2010) came out, i.e. without even checking how the new (and really superb with its revolutionary at that time Swipe UI) platform would perform. This clearly shows that Elop didn't want ANY alternative to WP.

- when the N9 finally was allowed to come out only in summer 2011, half a year after Elop announced discontinuation of MeeGo, and its sales turned out to be very good despite of it (around 1 million units per quarter) he instantly stopped its production. Another proof that he did not want any alternative to WP

- highly anticipated Anna and Belle updates for Symbian ^3 were very seriously delayed, and they only came out long after Elop announced that Symbian was to be ditched

- Carla and Donna updates were never released. In addition to further UI tweaks they were to bring hardware related improvements: support for higher screen resolutions and more powerful CPUs, etc.

So Elop didn't allow to even just check how the new Symbian would perform. From the very first day, he did EVERYTHING HE COULD to weaken Symbian and MeeGo. That both Symbian^3 and MeeGo were getting so high sales DESPITE of all the above listed HARMFUL actions can only suggest how much better they would have been doing without Elop and all the damage he did to them.

Therefore, it makes absolutely no sense to judge what chances Symbian^3 and MeeGo could have had, based on marketshares and growth rates from both BEFORE they came out (as those results were related only to old generally unloved Symbian S60 5th Edition, a wholly different quality than what Symbian^3 and MeeGo were bringing) and also AFTER they came out (because due to the above listed Elop's harmful actions they were strongly hampered). Elop simply DIDN'T ALLOW Symbian^3 and MeeGo to even just show their potential.

One thing that's clear (for every thinking person) is that Symbian^3 and MeeGo phones would have OBVIOUSLY performed BETTER if they weren't publicly discontinued and called names by Elop and only then released. And as they were performing really good even after that, without it they clearly could have been Nokia's huge comeback. It really doesn't take Einstein's brain to figure it out.


Quote:

Funny thing is that the best product does not allways win in the market

Not always. As opposed to a plainly bad product (that the Windows Phone 7.x was, and Windows Phone 8 not much better) no other company has ever succeeded with - in such case it is not "not always" but simply "never".

Quote:

Maybe you should not be so sure that Nokia would have made in if it had gone ahead with Symbian Belle and Meego.

Surely NOT WORSE than with Windows Phone, which was clear from the beginning as NO ONE ELSE had any success with it, neither at that time nor actually until today. It is an INSANE idea to assume that a product that NO ONE WAS BUYING from HTC, Samsung, SonyEricsson, LG, Huawei, etc. (nearly ZERO marketshare in 2010-2012) could have been doing any better than a product that was selling in millions of units, like the N8, the E7, the 808 PureView or the N9.

Even with the Nokia branding, after several years, WP only managed to reach some 3% global share (i.e. less than ONE TENTH of what Symbian had in early 2011) and a DECREASE has already been noted in the US, i.e. Microsoft's home market. And now that Microsoft got rid of Nokia branding from the new phones, I expect a further decrease as some of those people were loyally buying NOKIA phones, not WP phones.

Besides, the problem is not only whether it was a good decision to switch to WP or not, but first of all HOW it was done - how all Nokia's own platforms were publicly killed almost 1,5 years before Nokia could switch to WP, leaving Nokia with absolutely NOTHING to sell during the entire 2011 and part of 2012. THAT was what ruined the company within just months. And saying that Elop didn't understand the obvious effects of doing so is RIDICULOUS because a teenage girl would know that publicly announcing by the manufacturer that a product is "obsolete, incompetitive, outdated, fragile, etc." and that it won't be further developed would instantly kill its sales and make everyone keep away from it. And if Elop knew that it would ruin Nokia's finances then his goal must have been to make it cheap to acquire by Microsoft - there is absolutely no other explanation.
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PostPosted: Monday, 01.Dec.2014 22:36    Post subject:   Reply with quote   

Quote:

And if Elop knew that it would ruin Nokia's finances then his goal must have been to make it cheap to acquire by Microsoft - there is absolutely no other explanation.

I don't think Philips would be so concerned about what happened to Nokia if they thought it was an inside job.

Obviously you can not deny the facts, but you can question the motivation you attribute to them, like purposefully delaying releases etc to inflict damage. I personally woud not rule out american brash management incompetence. Or it could be that he felt the products were not ready yet for release or so.

Just can not figure out how it would be beneficial to Elop to run down Nokia on purpose. No good for his status, no good for his wallet, no good for his career.

But we are getting of topic here. The point of my post was that it is interesting see that story's are coming out. The more the merrier, the credible and the incredible.
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Michal Jerz
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PostPosted: Tuesday, 02.Dec.2014 22:56    Post subject:   Reply with quote   

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Just can not figure out how it would be beneficial to Elop to run down Nokia on purpose. No good for his status, no good for his wallet, no good for his career.

No good for his wallet? He got 25 million Euros pay off, for nothing. He would need to work years to normally earn such an amount. And he isn't unemployed now (so that this pay off could be considered a compensation for lost income) but he instantly went back to Microsoft where he continues to earn just as much as at Nokia, so he lost nothing and earned A LOT. Also note that he was eligible for such a pay-off only in those specific circumstances, i.e. the company had to be in such a deep sh*t for him to get that money. It's really interesting how Elop (allegedly such a loser, yet apparently not at all when it comes to his money) and those from Nokia Board who signed the contract with him could have foreseen in the contract EXACTLY what happened then. Some call it 'incentive' while it clearly was simply an agreed plan.

No good for his career or status? He became Microsoft Vice President and was even considered a CEO candidate. Who knows, maybe he'll be the next one.

Quote:

american brash management incompetence

As mentioned above, he got well awarded for what he did. A very special case of awarding a "management incompetence" like this. Does Microsoft always make such losers their vice presidents, or maybe rather he wasn't a loser at all and he was awarded like this for doing exactly what he was supposed to do?

Quote:

Or it could be that he felt the products were not ready yet for release or so.

There were absolutely no hardware or software changes between the N8 and E7 units I got for review and those which shipped months later. Exactly the same hardware and system versions. It's just that millions of already manufactured units were STORED until they were allowed to start shipping. My Nokia contacts who called me and asked me to delay my reviews clearly said that "the HQ decided postpone the launch".

And then Elop used marketshare results (much worse than they could have been if those highly demanded phones were already shipping) to convince the board that Symbian is on a steep decline.
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